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High taxes tied to problem

April 16, 2013

A panel discussion on poverty was an unfortunate eye-opener for many last wee....

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Dcronlg

Apr-16-13 8:06 AM

Nuts. Double nuts. If the clueless church lady gaggle OBSERVER board ever made a sheerly ignorant & amateurish economic thought and argument, this one is it.

Increasing school taxes DO NOT cause, DO NOT increase poverty; lack of decent paying jobs AND lack of economic growth cause poverty. 85% of all people on food stamps work -- 85! and of those 75% have full time jobs: full time jobs that DO NOT pay enough to feed their kids. THAT'S poverty.

Of all of the tax obligations in this county & state, school tax levies are some of the smallest. Yet local school taxes avg only 30% of a school's funding. Besides people in poverty typically DO NOT own homes and hence DO NOT pay property taxes.

Lastly, NYS legally mandates that NO local school CAN NOT charge more that the residents' aggregate ability to afford, given all their other living costs, meaning...school taxes DO NOT CAUSE or DO NOT contribute to poverty, you idiots.

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Steiner

Apr-16-13 8:09 AM

Dear editor, the libs do not see high taxes as the source of little or no jobs. They see the lack of jobs as the reason we have lack of jobs . Or better, lack of jobs with family sustaining wages. I got your buzzword lib !So high poverty rates are considered a success as the libs are for the poor, always making more of them to show the poor that the libs care for the poor so they make more and around and around we go. we cannot have any boom at all as they say, you did not build that or frack that. You know, its the end of the planet visions dancing in the libs head. And the libs think gun owners are crazy .

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Dcronlg

Apr-16-13 8:10 AM

If this canard of "school taxes cause poverty" is the only remaining argument the clueless church lady gaggle OBSERVER board can say in their policy drive towards school consolidation, then its clear how DESPERATE they are to be on a losing side.

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Steiner

Apr-16-13 8:14 AM

hey dc, are you mentally disabled with the church lady gaggle stuff ? Are you a misogynt ? And dc just proved what i said. taxes do not cause job loss. It is the lack of jobs that cause job loss. thanks Dc for illustrating the convoluted mentally disabled mind of a democrat. we should tax our way to prosperity says dc. Such mental illness is considered normal by a democrat.

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PhilJulian

Apr-16-13 9:33 AM

I am amazed by the number of people who apparently can't see the relationship between excessive taxation and poverty. Why do so many American businesses decide to produce their goods overseas? It's because it's more cost effective not only in labor costs but taxes as well. Chautauqua county is among the highest taxed in the entire country according to the Washington Tax Foundation. In addition, American corporate tax rates are among the highest in the world. Business leaders are not stupid and they have a responsibility to generate profits. The cozy relationship between American business and American labor is gone forever. The result in our county has declining populations, loss of industry, loss of youth, unemployment, poor property values and poverty. We can only blame ourselves for our greed and for allowing our government to be so ignorant.

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dabegr

Apr-16-13 12:10 PM

The one true comment from Phil is in the last sentence, where he states "we can only blame ourselves for our greed...". The tax structure in this country has changed substantially from the 1950's to today, with a top tax rate of 91% to a top tax rate of 39%, which the right says is still too high. Where in previous generations money made in this country was proudly spent or saved in this country, the greed of the richest now focuses solely on making more profit, with only the few benefiting. While I whole heartily agree that social programs need to be reformed and cut, the wealthy also need to pay their fair share. That does not happen under the present tax code.

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PR24601

Apr-16-13 1:55 PM

Dcronlg, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you here. The Democrat/left position cannot accept the fact that high taxes are indeed a burden and lessening that burden would help ease folks out of poverty. To admit such would ruin the entire economic ideology of the left, which says that higher taxes on the rich and higher minimum wages for the poor will lead us all to economic prosperity.

It couldn't be further from the truth. As you increase taxes and increase minimum wages, you marginalize the middle class, shrinking it even further as they become the new "higher" lower class. You increase the cost of goods and services because someone has to pay for the wages and the taxes. You marginalize the buying power of the lower and middle class, and increase state dependence to cover basic necessities. It's a downward spiral to economic depression.

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PR24601

Apr-16-13 1:58 PM

cont'd.. that said, before you crucify me, I don't believe the rich in this country are blameless. For the life of me, I don't understand why a corporation can't pay their people more, and maybe take a $5M profit instead of $10M, or why the CEO needs an 8-figure salary when high-7-figure will do. That's business ethics and has nothing to do with economics. Taxing the rich, increasing taxes, and keeping presently high tax levels is not the answer - it's a burden and it is keeping us here in CC, NYS, and the USA down.

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DKexpat

Apr-16-13 5:18 PM

One thing businesses never talk about (publically) is this:

(1)Say you’re a high-paid exec at a company looking at perhaps setting up operations in WNY, and you’re going to move here and run the show.

(2) You currently live in a low income tax and low-to-moderate property tax state.

(3) in addition to relo cocts, say you also receive a modest raise to relocate to WNY.

(4) But wait! Suddenly your net income goes DOWN - a lot - because your property taxes are doubling or tripling, and your state income tax goes up as well!

(5) Think you’d still recommend to relocate to WNY?

School taxes play a part, yes, but not as great as the tax burden NYS puts on individuals or businesses.

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DKexpat

Apr-16-13 5:44 PM

To dabegr’s point - -

Institutional Investor notes the top 25 hedge-fund managers earned $14.14 billion in 2012. Four earned more than $1 billion – billion – last year, headed by David Tepper’s $2.2 billion. (Tenth place was “just” $560 million.)

Yet, hedge funds, on average - for the 10th straight year – underperformed the S&P 500 in 2012 (6.4% vs. 16%). Nice work if you can get it, huh?

Nonetheless, most of those billions – billions - of dollars are taxed at just 15%. Just 15%...

What’s your tax rate compared to that?

Yup, they pay the same tax rate as someone making $35,000/year – on hundreds of millions or even billions in income per year due to the special exception in the tax code granted to hedge fund managers.

Ain’t the tax code grand?

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Marcia

Apr-16-13 6:25 PM

DKexpat, you hit the nail on the head. In addition, there are billions of dollars being off-shored and hidden from taxes. "Thanks to lax international tax rules the world’s super rich have siphoned at least $21 trillion -- more than 50 percent larger than the entire U.S. economy -- into secretive tax-free havens, according to a study by UK campaign group Tax Justice Network...According to the study, the world’s top 50 private banks managed more than $12.3 trillion in 2010 in off-shore financial assets, up from $7.5 trillion five years earlier.

In 2010, the world’s top 10 financial institutions -- which today include the U.S.’s Goldman Sachs and JPMorganChase, as well as Switzerland’s UBS and Credit Suisse -- controlled about half of this amount. At least seven of these top 10 institutions received huge bailouts in the wake of the financial crisis, Henry said." Very disturbing.

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stangv8

Apr-16-13 8:43 PM

Marcia, do you know what countries these super wealthy who have 21 trillion in overseas accounts come from?

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PhilJulian

Apr-17-13 12:54 PM

We need to remember that approximately half of all Americans are invested in stocks or mutual funds. Everyone benefits from the 15% tax rate on capital gains - NOT JUST THE RICH!

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DarkStar

Apr-17-13 2:41 PM

PhilJulian,

Nothing you say will keep those who wish to demonize the rich from doing so, afterall if people stop hating the rich they might question why the government needs to spend so much, and we can't have that can we?

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killers

Apr-17-13 5:40 PM

DKexpat, who pays higher taxes the person who pays 15% of a billion or the person who pays 28% of 100k. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out who pays more than their fair share. In fact, the ones on the bottom actually get money back from the government they never paid in, does that make sense.

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DKexpat

Apr-17-13 10:33 PM

Phil, the carried interest exemption given to hedge fund managers is reserved solely for them.

It is NOT a capital gains tax like we pay on our after-tax investments, rather an exemption in the tax code where hundreds of millions - or billions - are taxed at the same rate as someone making $35k/year. Is that fair?

A movie star, a star athlete, or anyone else making $$$$/yr does not have that exemption. That is also the main reason Mitt paid just 13.9 percent on terms of millions of income -- a much lower rate than I did.

Not fair...

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DKexpat

Apr-17-13 10:35 PM

Killers, does it make sense that - as a percentage of adjusted gross income - a guy that makes a billion dollars - a billion dollars - a year pays a lower rate than you do?

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DarkStar

Apr-18-13 7:25 AM

DKexpat,

No, nor does it make sense that I have to support people who choose not to work or to have far more kids then they can afford, but that's not likely to change.

If one person paying a lower rate than another is unfair then let's wipe out the current tax code and put a flat tax in it's place

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DKexpat

Apr-18-13 9:10 AM

DarkStar, now that’s a different story – and I agree with you - - - we in the workforce paying for those #&$@#*#% who are generationally on the public dole with no interest in improving their situations.

Why should they – far too many are satisfied with sitting on the front porch all day.

One example: I worked my way through college, and one job was at a big-city ER where I watched entire families come in – not at 6a, mind you, but sometime after breakfast – for minor things I couldn’t afford to pay for at the time due to my high deductible. Yup, people on the public dole with better healthcare than the people providing the service. Wrong on so many levels...

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cruisin

Apr-18-13 2:17 PM

Isn't it amazing that everywhere I travel in this country, the region seems to claim that they pay the highest taxes in the nation and have a suspect study as proof. They also claim the eliminating taxes will cure all ills and fix all problems. Typical neo-con logic.

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DarkStar

Apr-18-13 4:35 PM

"Isn't it amazing that everywhere I travel in this country" leftist try to discount massive government spending and wealth redistribution?

"They also claim" increased taxes and government spendin "will cure all ills and fix all problems."

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