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‘Mechanism’ is an option

April 28, 2013

Financially troubled cities and schools are breathing a sigh of relief after hearing state Gov. Andrew Cuomo say last week he is ready to join in the discussion to assist “distressed communities....

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(31)

DKexpat

May-01-13 9:09 AM

One can only hope that Tt brings the same energy and passion to the classroom...

:-)

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DarkStar

May-01-13 7:39 AM

"...Evil public sector, virtuous private..."

It's not that simple, but the issue is that if you don't like GE, the way it's run, or what it pays its workers or executive you can refuse to buy their product and thus finance the company.

The public sector on the otherhand gives you no choices as they take your money by threat of law.

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DarkStar

May-01-13 7:35 AM

"... do you realize how nasty you sound, begging for teachers' blood? My God, you and your ilk are like rabid dogs...."

I've never begged for anyones blood, and instead was simply responding to your statements that teachers are loosing their jobs over their students grades and I asked which teachers?

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Truthteller

Apr-30-13 3:20 PM

Here's your next comment: "TT's imbecilic rant..." Yeah, yeah, don't bother. I'm taking a break for a couple weeks. I don't want to get rabies. So you can bite the next comment space, but I won't see it.

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Truthteller

Apr-30-13 3:19 PM

Evil public sector, virtuous private...The myth lives on in these forums. Poor GE, not paying any taxes. Poor Exxon Mobil, getting a handsome subsidy every year. Poor failing companies, laying off dozens of workers while their CEO's are rewarded with multimillion-dollar bonuses and perks. Poor companies, having to give away American jobs to foreign workers, because as you know, taxes were invented in 1993, when Clinton took office. These myths should be taught alongside Zeus and Hera and Poseidon and all that crew. And don't forget...It's all the fault of the greedy, slacker, lazy bums who have the nerve to say they care about young people when all they care about is themselves.

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Truthteller

Apr-30-13 3:15 PM

As I ALREADY said, this is year one of a two-year evaluation cycle. NOBODY gets fired after year one--they get a Teacher Improvement Plan. How can I give you a list when it isn't 2014!? Duh. Besides, do you realize how nasty you sound, begging for teachers' blood? My God, you and your ilk are like rabid dogs. You won't be happy tip teachers are paid minimum wage and even then you won't be happy because you're always whining that THAT'S too much. The U.S. will always lag behind the civilized world until rabid dogs stop voting.

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PhilJulian

Apr-30-13 9:35 AM

There can be no question that our area could use some "adult supervision" and a control board would be well advised. Teachers are often blamed for our fiscal problems but who among us would turn down a raise or a great benefit package if it were offered? Maybe we should be asking if local sachool boards are doing their job or are they simply filling a chair because no one else wanted to run for the thankless position. Maybe we should be putting more of the blame on the public employee relations board for their lopsided judgements. Maybe we should simply admit that the system as it exists is simply not working and should be replaced with a system where the state assumes all financial responsibility for the operation of local school districts. Take the burden off the local homeowners and place it on the state where they have huge revenues from sales taxes and income taxes.

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DKexpat

Apr-30-13 8:51 AM

"If tenure is eliminated, here's what happens..." - - - Why am I not surprised by "we GOTTA keep tenure!"

That's one problem with the education system. (Just like the civil service system.)

If you show up for work, you're paid, regardless of whether or not you do you job, much less do it well.

That'd never fly in the private sector...

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DarkStar

Apr-30-13 7:10 AM

TT,

We are still waiting for you to list all the teachers fired from Dunkirk due to the scores of their students.

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Truthteller

Apr-29-13 9:16 PM

Captain--hot air. Where's your evidence? Where's your examples? You don't know what you're talking about. You're just ****** off. No wonder you're not a teacher.

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Truthteller

Apr-29-13 9:14 PM

So now answer my question: why aren't you all teachers?

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Truthteller

Apr-29-13 9:14 PM

If tenure is eliminated, here's what happens: whenever a principal or superintendent leaves, re-locates, retires, lots of innocent teachers and aides are replaced with relatives and friends. Why kind of monster would advocate that? So no. APPR--what kind of jerk would support a system in which teachers are graded for test scores of students they don't teach and for students' opinions and for a measurement that is inconsistent from evaluator to evaluator and therefore not objective. So no.

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Captain

Apr-29-13 7:59 PM

The diatribe that TT offered is just as disturbing as the large number of educators who actually believe it's appropriate, even insufficient, to spend OVER $40 MILLION DOLLARS PER YEAR (in DK) to teach approx 2000 kids. This is part of the reason why the city is doomed.

And please get off the aggrandizing "holier than thou" assessment of teachers. I certainly value their services, but not anywhere near the level you do.

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DKexpat

Apr-29-13 6:08 PM

[repeating] Jes' wonderin' - - TT, are you in favor of doing away with tenure, i.e., letting one's annual performance review determine merit increases and/or continued employment?

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Truthteller

Apr-29-13 5:16 PM

Let's try this on: you take away a living wage from teachers. People don't go into the profession because they realize they'll never be able to pay their rent/mortgage and basic expenses, including the student loans they have (and if you think you can go without loans when a UB STATE education is $20,000 a year, forget it. This isn't the 70's, folks). Education doesn't happen anymore. Get your guns ready. Put bars on your windows. Those who would be students are now without education and rudderless. There will be mayhem. But go for it because you've been saying it for decades and finally you got your wish: we can't afford teachers.

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Truthteller

Apr-29-13 5:11 PM

And again and again and again--if it's so easy and the pay so good, why aren't you doing it? Why isn't everyone?

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Truthteller

Apr-29-13 5:10 PM

I wonder if any of you know any teachers. If you did, you'd see things differently. You'd know that the hours you THINK teachers put in are not even close. You'd know that the annual review measures a lot of things--like data analysis--that aren't teaching. You'd know that many districts, including Syracuse, are basing teachers' employment on the opinions of students, K-12. You'd also know that citing the top of the pay scale, which is after about 20 years of service, is misleading. First of all, $80,000 "base" (which is all you get if you don't do coaching or extracurricular) is not outlandish for someone with expertise, experience, liabilities, and the expectation that the person solve all the ills of society. The percentage of people at that salary is very small, and this remains true because regular incentive offers save districts money by cleaning out the top. Most teachers are nowhere near $80,000. If you think that's too high, well, walk a mile...You'll sing a differe

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DarkStar

Apr-29-13 2:10 PM

Truthteller,

Wow, what a crock your spewing there my friend.

Teachers used to be paid poorly and were given great benifits, and tenure, to help make up for the low pay.

Back when the pay was low teaching was a calling because you went into it knowing you wouldn't get rich.

Now pay has gone up, and up and up and now many teachers base pay in Dunkirk is over $80,000, and some over $90k, and yet the benifits have only grown over time and are second to none.

Many, including Dunkirk and NY have always listened to the teacher's unions cry of "we need more money" and now we costs more then $36,666 for each student in the School system.

Think about that for a minute, the medium household income for Dunkirk is about $28k but it costs 25% more that that for every student. It even exceeds the median family income for the city which is about $35k.

And let's not overlook that this is all for 183 seven hour days a year, of which a teacher will only teach 2-3 hour a day.

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DKexpat

Apr-29-13 8:22 AM

Jes' wonderin' - - TT, are you in favor of doing away with tenure, i.e., letting one's annual performance review determine merit increases and/or continued employment?

2 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

Truthteller

Apr-29-13 7:26 AM

The quirky thing about human beings is that our self-image as good people, reasonable people, open-minded people is distorted by our own love of self. Yet we are so eager to see others as not quite as good as us. THEY are opinionated, THEY have negative qualities. I, however, do NOT. I trust you all are good at changing your minds. You've implied you are. (And where's that bridge for sale!?) The difference between you and me is that I AM able to change my mind in the face of overwhelming evidence. You, however, will not even acknowledge the evidence. That is why you resort to hate and vague comments and insults.

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Truthteller

Apr-29-13 7:14 AM

Oh yes, and TT will never change his position. So HOW is it you know that?

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Truthteller

Apr-29-13 7:12 AM

Wow, amazing that you pegged me for a selfish S O B--and ASSUMED I'm a teacher--when none of you even know me. You must have gone to one great school to make you all so omniscient. But wrong. This issue is like the minimum wage. Decade after decade after decade, increases will ruin businesses. And teachers have been for decades told that their communities cannot afford them. And that they're greedy and selfish. These complaints are always proven wrong. The question is, can any community afford NOT to pay its teachers a wage that you all think is too high because steelworkers don't make that much, but is really, when you factor in the REAL hours and effort expended, the liabilities, the testing pressures, the discipline issues, and the issues of crime and poverty, etc. teachers deal with--not nearly enough money. AGAIN, I ask all of you--Why aren't you a teacher? Overpaid, underworked--you and the steelworkers should be flocking to the teaching profession.

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DKexpat

Apr-28-13 9:08 PM

Agree with Captain and concerned. Times have changed...and communities must adjust and live within their means.

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Captain

Apr-28-13 8:02 PM

TT's opinion will never change, but those who do understand what's happening are leaving (if possible). Times have changed dramatically, with private sector unemployment nearing record levels, but you hang in there TT. Adversarial attitudes such as yours, coupled with plenty of selfishness, has clearly contributed to WNY's steady destruction. I really do understand your denial; I bet it helps you sleep better at night.

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concerned

Apr-28-13 6:50 PM

truth public union concession are a drop in a bucket compared to the losses in the private sector " you know the people who pay your wages and benefits"

3 Agrees | 1 Disagrees | Report Abuse »

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