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Last call for NRG project

June 13, 2013

On Monday night, Power Up committee member Doug Stock attended the Fredonia Village Board meeting to offer a reminder to trustees: show your support for the repowering of the NRG facility in Dunkir....

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Jun-13-13 8:32 AM

Its hard to believe the business council came out against this. I wonder where they think the taxes will come from if the plant closes. Maybe the council has bought into the phony story of gloom from fracking, where all the gas is coming from and the global warming hysteria. Imagine the message this sends out to the rest of the country. In NY, we are contracting so much we can close a power plant. NY open for business, er business closings.

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Jun-13-13 10:36 AM

Steinerdzzz...the Business Council came out against this proposal because its a bad investment decision for anf throughout NYS, for years to come. In other words, they know more about business, operating a business, capital investments, costs, profits, taxes -- you know, the BIG top-bottom-side-side picture -- than you, the clueless church lady gaggle OBSERVER board, etc.

If the Business Council hedges on a investment, then its a seriously questionable investment of suspect returns.

Not surprising how much you don't get it.

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Jun-13-13 12:59 PM

You would think the owner of the facility would be the best one to “make the call” in terms of return on investment, the marketplace, the regulatory climate, etc. - - not some other entity, especially when the president of one of NRG’s competitors (National Grid) is on the board of the NYS Business Council.

IF NRG says it can compete and is willing to put its money where its mouth is, why not let them?

Dunkirk taxpayers will be between the proverbial rock and a hard place if NRG pulls out of town.

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Jun-13-13 2:28 PM

OK, DC, where's the studies? Where's the numbers and statistics you demand from anyone else making a statement? What qualifies you to argue any point on this subject? Your very tired and repetitive insults show a total lack of imagination and an incredible ability to fixate to an almost OCD level. Of course, I have no studies to back that up.

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Jun-13-13 4:01 PM

DK -- on the other hand, when its comes to significant investments, ie, mergers and acquisitions, your posit of "You would think the owner of the facility would be the best one to “make the call” in terms of return on investment, the marketplace, the regulatory climate, etc." is horribly off, as 8 to of 10 to 9 of 10 M&As, fail, and fail miserably to deliver the investment and synergy benefits sold to investors.

Those "in the know" clearly have self-serving agenda, which is often positioned as a solid investment.

Of course, as a producer, its in NRG's best interest to sell the repowering of itself, as it is for National Grid, the distributor, to argue for their interests. This leaves all the end-users, ie, the Council, to have their say. Given their unique and broad membership (they have a dog in this fight? its quite unclear...), their sidelines view is arguably of a better position of determination.

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Jun-13-13 4:09 PM

Christuufuu -- who knew you cared? I'm touched.

Unlike you, I do know about capital investments, M&As in capital intensive businesses, and the like. When a producer, NRG and a distributor, Nat Grid are at odds about the strategic longer term economic benefit(s) of a massive (000s of millions) capital investment, something isn't right.

When the Brookings Institute and McKinsey examine electric generation of WNY (I read the reports, did you??), there is ZERO mention of any contribution of the Dunkirk plant, vis-a-vis the long term economic viability of WNY. Begs the question, doesn't it? Outside of tax benefits for Dunkirk, what exactly are the utilitarian (greater good for greater numbers) economic benefits? Looks like there aren't any -- except Dunkirk.

The Council, with its mission and unique membership arrived at a similar place.

There's more, of course. But hopefully you get the idea.

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Jun-13-13 4:19 PM

(Cont) Oh and Christuufuu, you may not like my methods or manner at rebuttal, but I have found, that with an exception of a very very few, most folks here and with the OBSERVER are very quantitative folks. In fact, when faced with overwhelming facts, they dig in their dogmatic heel even deeper -- I marvel at Judeye's perseverance, who does the homework every day. I don't have OCD, my dear boy, I have a lack of patience with militant ignorance.

I may be insulting, but I'm not mean -- unlike you, you will never ever hear me say that needy kids shouldn't get free school lunches, that all they need are PB&Js for lunch from their parent's food stamps. Speaking of studies, you should study up on just who, where and why are the free school lunch recipients. Then tell me about over a PB&J.

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Jun-13-13 4:38 PM

"Those "in the know" clearly have self-serving agenda, which is often positioned as a solid investment."

No kidding...that's life. You think private industry is altruistic? You think the government doesn't waste billions, even trillions, gambling on new undertakings?

Should an agency be able to stifle private investment and competition? What a dangerous precedent! That's how you grow the economy and add jobs? A private company can't spend money on its business plan because someone else doesn't like it? Just whose money is it, anyway?

Growing a business is not a slam dunk, and using that defeatist thinking means Ferdinand and Isabella shouldn't have invested in Columbus...

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Jun-13-13 4:58 PM

DC doesn't see an issue that the President of the company recommending closure is on that board he thinks so much of? That company only transmits power, it doesn't make it, so where is it coming from? Oh, that's right, CANADA! Follow the money, you'll be enlightened. As for the other subjects, PB&J is ok by me, tastes good, nutritious enough, and you go ahead and spend YOUR money to double and triple dip for food for the poor, I'm more than a bit tired of it. People like you have contributed to a permanent underclass.

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Jun-14-13 12:36 PM

When it's time for Cuomo & the PSC to make the final decision, which recommendation do you think carries the most weight, the Business Council's or a desperate campaign by area letter-writers (many who have absolutely no business acumen) whose sole interest is to prevent losing the city's single-largest taxpayer?

Go ahead and write those letters if you think it'll help (it certainly can't hurt and at least you can say you tried). Closing NRG would devastate the city, so let's hope it doesn't happen, but don't hold your breath.

Has anyone projected how much of a tax hike is needed IF NRG closes?

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Jun-14-13 2:50 PM

Captain Im not aware of county or city tax numbers made public but in a letter to the PSC posted on the PSC comment page, the Dunkirk School Board president estimates Dunkirk school taxes would need to rise by 42% to make up the shortfall.

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Jun-14-13 5:09 PM

Thanks Localone. Before noting this tax hike estimate, I wonder if BOE President Kozlowski took into account the anticipated pay raise school employees will almost certainly demand during their next CBA talks?

To be fair, don't think for a minute that any of the other public unions will sympathize w/the city should NRG close down. That's the city's problem, not theirs.

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