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Educators oftentimes know better

January 6, 2014

If one were to ask you the names of your favorite teachers from kindergarten and throughout your schooling, it may be not too difficult to answer....

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(33)

Regelski

Jan-09-14 11:33 AM

DxExpat: Correct. But Finns don't much care because the high stakes testing involved is rather strange to their country: they're not used to such benchmarks and don't care. And as Pasi Sahlberg explains in Finnish Lessons, teachers and the public don't much concern themselves with international ratings. I mention them only because these international comparisons, aside from placing the US very low, demonstrate that the policies and practices of other countries that are successful, are diametrically the opposite of what is proposed in the US (mainly by politicians, and politician-educators who run city schools). In the US, a corporate model has teachers as functionaries on a production line; elsewhere, teachers are respected professionals. Here they are demeaned for any number of reasons: mostly about what they earn compared to the school day) which is is 1/3 (or less) of what teachers do to prepare. Were Americans to support teachers, things would be very different, I urge.

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DKexpat

Jan-08-14 4:48 PM

I just looked at the OECD/PISA results for 2012, and Finland was ranked 12th in math and 5th in both reading and science. (Still much higher than the US.)

A recent Varkey Gems Foundation study indicates “teacher respect” is highest in China, followed by Greece, Turkey, Singapore and New Zealand, and lowest in Israel, Brazil the Czech Republic and Italy.

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Regelski

Jan-08-14 11:51 AM

badnewsbear: You're on track, and you address the issue, unlike the blather about ice and other detritus of feeble minds. One thing motivates success in international educational circles: the attitude (ethos) of a society concerning being educated. Those countries where this ethos is high, have public support for teachers and education; and those where it is low (the US) dump on teachers for the failings of the society to recognize how important the next generations are to us individually (doctors, nurses, lawyers, educators) and as a society. It's easy to bad-mouth teachers; it is really difficult, on the other hand to deal with the numbers and multiplicity of needs in classrooms, that are growing in size and increasing responsibility for all kinds of mandated BS from on high. Throughout the Orient a teacher (sensei) is respected throughout life and is granted a bow on the street when met--even years later. We don't bow, but we should be glad to have dedicated teachers.

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CadeFoster

Jan-08-14 9:53 AM

Ha Ha. gotcha. Science is Science. Ice Core Samples prove Co2 levels have risen within the last 50 years just like man has mega increase Co2 emissionsin the last 50 years. An only takes about 100 year to dissapate 80% of the Co2 now in the atmosphere.

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DKexpat

Jan-08-14 9:42 AM

Um, I think there’s a remedial reading class this week at the library – please register.

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Steiner

Jan-08-14 8:59 AM

cade, are you all there mentally ? there is no difference between analytical science and chemistry. i have used analytical people for 40 years. i have turned court cases with analytical science. you just do not know as most of the posters here dont what true science is. I did it, but not just me. we would have been fired for politicizing it so as the libs have done. on PBS was another analytical chemist in NYC in the 30s. Laguardia did not like him and hounded that guy to an early grave. govt people it seems dont like science. thre posters here seem suorised at nearly every post. thats amazing toi me as my posts are from books, tv specials or personal science experience. In other words, the posters here are clueless, witless on science. No other conclusion can be drawn. quotes from gals themselves are ridiculed.amazing

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Steiner

Jan-08-14 8:53 AM

dk, you and the other posters just like to attack my posts. i said higher education was getting expensive and would have to change. you said um, no. now you say it is. regelski said what the nobel winners on the manhattan project said. american education was consumed by sports. that comment was ridiculed elsewhere. . Dk says education is a money pit. Follow the money and it leads to the democratic party. Christophers unions. from every angle, education is a liberal thing in this country. get the govt out of education , bust the teachers union strangle hold on it and things will get better. i cant imagine how this is missed again and again.. It is so very obvious to all .

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MikeDavis

Jan-07-14 4:58 PM

Tom, it's all about the money now. Education is a cash cow that saddles a majority of the recent grads with student loan debt. The quality has dropped as the cost has increased. I loved school when I was attending. I still remember several of my favorites. My fifth grade teacher Mrs. Ludeman. Eigth grade math Mr. Carlson. High school science, Mr Woodbury. I only wish there were more teachers like them.

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badnewsbear

Jan-07-14 4:05 PM

Regelski nails it: "one size fits all does not work" and get the government out of the mix (NCLB & CC). The teachers aren't the problem as education is being taken out of their hands. Blame the bureaucrats. Also, blame the parents that disrespect teachers in front of their kids and place a low importance on education. In general, kids will not place any importance on something that their parents show disdain for.

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DKexpat

Jan-07-14 12:24 PM

“Dk, just cant fathom that a 4 year college is getting too expensive and will be modified greatly.”

Um, earlier this week I’d posted “higher education has become a money pit, its cost to students far outpacing inflation and saddling average families/students with tens of thousands of dollars in debt for an undergrad degree.” And that "over the past 30 years the CPI is up 115%, while college inflation is up nearly 500%."

Online/distance learning is the wave of the future – the campus model, especially for graduate school, is outdated. Example: Georgia Tech just started an online MS, Computer Science program for $6,600 – 1/6 the cost of its traditional, on-campus program. (I compare that with the $47,000 I spent for an MS at the University of Virginia.)

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Regelski

Jan-07-14 12:16 PM

To comment on educational matters, you need some more basis than your own educational history, your school tax bill, and whatever animus you harbor against teachers--whether it be their salaries and work conditions or your own history of hated teachers. For example, in Finland, teaching is the second most respected profession (by the public) after medicine! Thus, the best of school grads (top 10% go into teaching)and, without No Child Left Behind or Common Core politics are allowed to function fully as professionals. And they do, and do produce an educated public (that, e.g., reads more than any other nation). Sociologists decry the "deprofessionalisation" of teaching in the US that is due to top-down politics (NCLB and CC), teaching to the test, and a proensity (especially by administrators) for "what works" pedagogy. Except that "one size fit all" doesn't work and only real professionals know that. It's a shame that teachers aren't respected by the

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Regelski

Jan-07-14 12:02 PM

Moreover,can we imagine 12 years of schooling without a high-stakes test of any kind (e.g., NYS Regents Exams)? Well, little Finland manages, and is at the top of the international PISA scores: only one such test, at graduation, which is judged to qualify the student for acceptance to a higher education major. And higher education is not only free (think of college tuition in the US) but the nation (the people) subsidize each student, for 7 years (through a doctorate)to the tune of 400 euros a month (currently $550 dollars: no dorms). Rather than contribute more blather to the discussion, why don't interested readers study how and why US education is failing in comparison to the rest of the world. I recommend a book, Finnish Lessons, by Pasi Sahlberg, for a start: an eye opener to those whose opinions are unaware of what's going on in the rest of the world. Read it and you'll see how we're going opposite the policies in nations whose students lead the international scene.

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Regelski

Jan-07-14 11:52 AM

Dr. Heischberger makes some good points, despite the usual howls of the commentariat about their own war-fare of almost words. First, mention of recalling a good teacher unfortunately also recalls aspects of schooling that did not sit well with some readers whose school experiences were not to their liking. And they blame schools, and teachers, not some of the variables in their own lives that turned them off to school (like lack of parental models, no home reading, TV as a babysitter, etc.). Secondly, his point about common core standards and high stake testing is on target. The US performs below the world average on the international PISA tests! You can blame that on the students or on the system. I think both are involved. US students are consumed with social this and that. . . sports, proms, and the like. These aspects of growing up are not assigned to schools in most of the rest of the world; rather, the community outside of schools provides the social dimension.

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CadeFoster

Jan-07-14 11:43 AM

ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY vs ANALYTICAL SCIENCE. you dont belive in it, you only belive in yourself. Ice cores have given us so much information about this planet, but dont belive it.

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Steiner

Jan-07-14 11:29 AM

i know its tough to understand what i post when ya think like cade and dk. cade, i am persevering to undermine what is junk science. if my facts are junk, then ALL OF ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY IS TOO, but analytical chemistry aint junk.Casey anthoney was found innocent by it. I have turned many a claim away from the courts. Even told customers, find an analytical lab and confirm what i said. They did and the other lab said the same thing. all science. all the time.i know this i s hard ewhen you are a lberal.Emotions not facts rule. Dk, just cant fathom that a 4 year college is getting too expensive and will be modified greatly. As for women ? why did facebook and other companies have to advertise special for gals ? Cuz there were not any. You see DK, I forward look. You are stuck in the immediete present.this is a huge philosophic difference between us. due to global warming at least in part. you believe it i gather, but its junk science.

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CadeFoster

Jan-07-14 10:32 AM

STUPER STEINER your facts have been proven wrong again and again. I can copy and paste from every Scientific website and blog and you would not agree with any of it because your old drunken bent mind will not update to this time period.

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DKexpat

Jan-07-14 9:37 AM

Um, steiner, it’s embarrassing when your “facts” really aren’t, huh?

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Steiner

Jan-07-14 9:26 AM

um, dk, thats why enrollement at community colleges has risen. We are seeing the decay of the classic four year college. it starts small, but grows big. If you subscribe to WSJ then you had to have seen all the aricles about women lagging in the business world. yet you always say, um , no steiner. I post what i see in 40 years, across 25 states, and you say , um no. Plase dk,get our facts. All of the major processes running were invented by guys. A woman will do the occassional something, but even a blind man can find something. Even christopher blamed the social engineering by the schools as the cause of educations decline.all my friends my age say that a single earner family just cant make it anymore with the escalating costs. All of this happened since the 70's . Now we see the schools starting to bust. it will get bigger.

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CadeFoster

Jan-07-14 9:00 AM

Stiener who care where your numbers came from. The wall street journal, oh boy. When someone else post same info from credible sorurces you laugh at it, so its all wrong, they dont understand. So now I laugh at your numbers.

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DKexpat

Jan-07-14 8:57 AM

Um, steiner, your baseline assumption is incorrect: please use current, accurate and complete data.

The WSJ article you mis-reference (I subscribe to the WSJ, so I read it) focused on a couple of small, mostly unknown, private schools with unrealistic tuition. (One example was $170k for a 4-yr degree.)

Overall, undergraduate and graduate enrollment have increased - darn those women! - as noted in my earlier post.

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CadeFoster

Jan-07-14 8:56 AM

To bad The "Bushes" couldn't make it any better in there 12 years as Chief. Or they didn't care.

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Christopher

Jan-07-14 7:46 AM

Education has increased in price and dropped in quality almost from the day that Education was made a Federal Cabinet position, like it or not. And, no doubt, Liberal's efforts to use schools for social engineering watered it down even more, and increased the price by leaps and bounds. Schools do HORRBLE jobs of steering students to money making curriculums for post High School. Colleges offer more useless course work than can be imagined, also adding to the expense for all students. It's a shame. Psychologists haven't helped at all, inventing new diagnoses for almost any bad behavior from a student one could imagine, you name it, there's a syndrome or a medication and therefore extra money spent. No student is just bad anymore, or a brat, or rude, or disrespectful. They're all ill in someway. It's not going to get better in any of our lifetimes, if ever.

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localresident

Jan-07-14 1:25 AM

Ahh, the Dcronig-retardism is in full effect. Tell me, why are trade school professins in such an insanely large demand now? Why is there such a glut of mechanics, line workers, welders, maintenance mechanics, etc.? Because absolute douchebags like Dcronig have absolute misconceptions about how the world works, that's why. Mechanics are making 3x what they did 20 years ago thanks to liberal false flag education requirements. Now, a newbie welder is making 40$hr because Dcronig said the trades were for the untrainable masses.

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DKexpat

Jan-06-14 3:46 PM

We’ve all heard the career advice “Do something you love and you’ll never work a day of your life.” Unfortunately, today’s reality is that your major in art, philosophy or other liberal arts pursuits may not land you a job. (Or at least not the one you want or one that’ll pay enough to cover those student loans without living at home with mom and dad.)

STEM (Science-Technology-Engineering-Mathematics) is the best way to go – that’ll land you a job at a good starting salary, and you can use your free time and money to pursue those other interests.

We should have robust technical and work-study programs – like in Europe – for electricians, heavy equipment repair, mechanics, etc. for those who are not interested in college. If you own an auto repair shop around DC, the average rate is $125/hr. (So if your major is “undeclared,” maybe you should think twice before incurring $20-30k in student loans.)

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Dcronlg

Jan-06-14 2:56 PM

True that, DK, true that -- A Masters is the new Bachelors and women are taking over higher ed.

I see the other Deliverance twin is still smarting from not getting that banjo scholarship...

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